TRAINING: First crash of 2013

I went on my long-planned excursion from Glenmalure to the West Wicklow hills in the Glen of Imaal with Sean Harte and Aoife today. I had planned it as the beginning of my new 29-week build-up to a December marathon target.

Changing things up for the next marathon

My goal is to do things a bit differently this year putting the bulk of my training in the summer, peaking in December, enjoying Christmas and then building on that training for new objectives in April/May of the coming year.

When I began my training for Copenhagen, two months after beginning to implement Tony Riddle’s methods in 2011, I did a similar run with Aoife – the Trooperstown/Paddock Hill circuit (a half-marathon distance event with good ups and downs). It’s normally easy enough but on that day, having come back from very little metabolic training, I bonked completely, walking the last two hills in a haze.

Fatigue in the hills

Unsurprisingly, it kick-started a great spell of training for me (my body kicks back strongly from extreme fatigue when not done too regularly), so when I was hit by a similar incident in the late stages of today’s even longer and rougher run, I looked on it as a good omen! Coming up the final climbs just before we hit the 2 hour mark of our run, I felt like I had been hit by a bit of overheating (too many layers) and probably also a reminder that while my muscular and technical fitness is likely at an all-time high, my metabolic fitness (meaning my body’s ability to supply energy for my activities) needs more work.

West Wicklow exploration

Today’s run was intended not just to be a long adventure but to visit several hills I have never seen. There are 4 significant peaks directly West of Table Mountain (Lobawn, Corriebrack, Sugarloaf and Church Mountain) and two minor (Logar and Pinnacle hill). Our 26.2km loop took in Lobawn, Sugarloaf and Logar. I can definitely recommend the hills, apart from a rough and mucky going just off Table, there’s a lot of varied terrain to enjoy. The super-steep descent of Church Mountain is a proper roller-coaster and so is the whole route.

I’m looking forward to coming back over the table track to explore Slievemaan, Ballineddan and Lybagh, the three peaks south of Lugnacoille (Leinster’s highest peak around which all else revolves) and the outliers of Keadeen and  Carrigbrack. I’ve summited most of the peaks in Wicklow and Dublin, so it has stood out like a sore thumb to me for a while to leave all these Western peaks unattended!

We finished standing in the cool river back in Glenmalure before braving the mass of cars that had made their way from the capital as the sun came out. Body and mind tired now, but looking forward to bouncing back and enjoying what i hope will be the best and most focused 29 weeks of training I have done.

COMPETITION: Win a “Run injury free” workshop

ChampionsEverywhere are running a competition and the prize is a 2-day weekend course (the “Run injury free – learn the fundamentals of old school running” workshop).

To enter it, simply go to the ChampionsEverywhere Facebook page and Like the CE page and fill out this form. If you also share on your own wall, we’ll enter your name twice in the raffle for the prize. If you are not on Facebook and want to remain “off it” (we understand!), you can tweet about our competition on Twitter or share the link to our competition on your LinkedIn profile. Winner to be announced in or around the 19th May.

In that case email your name and email to coaching@championseverywhere.com so we can enter you into the draw and contact you if you win. The competition opens up a spot for the July (27th/28th) or September (14th/15th) workshops only , but even if you know you’re away you can transfer your prize to a friend and fellow runner, so feel free to enter anyway.

DIARY: Fly, yes, land, no!

It’s been some landing since returning from our honeymoon on Sunday 21st. You’re always going to feel a bit “flat” after a wedding and an adventure when returning to “normal” life. Thankfully, my life is not too normal yet my calendar planning could have been better – I returned to work 13 days in a row and only yesterday could we finally settle down.

Thankfully, work does not have to mean dull as the “Run injury free” weekend the weekend before this proved yet again. Tony Riddle was back and this weekend was really insightful. Tony stays in our house when he is here and Saturday morning was spent with him fine-tuning our running technique. After the first day we worked out mountain running technique during a run up the Spink. I had some real breakthroughs this time: working on my posture on extreme uphills and downhills and getting my “intellectual mind” to settle down while running. “There are moments of brilliance,” Tony told me, “but then sometimes something sneaks in.”

 

The Power of Hills

So the weekend featured a double-refresher: we had three previous attendees back and like me they were no longer in need of the major overhaul that most runners require when they attend the first time. We were in detail-territory. Sundays extreme hill session emphasized the effect your posture and rhythm has in a way flat simply cannot do. While I was on coaching duty, Tony looked at me and asked “want to have a go?” The temptation was too much, of course, and as I hopped up and down the 15% slope with the 5kg bar over my head, I felt a rush of excitement from the pure power and skill necessary to do the action. “This,” I though, “will unlock a different runner.” I saw evidence of it on our Spink run when my downhill stride felt faster and lighter than it ever has.

Limerick Expo

Mentally and physically I went into the following week quite exhausted, unfortunately, but bounced back as we drove down to Limerick for the Great Run Expo where we had been scheduled to give three talks. Aoife and I travelled alone to give the rest of the team a bit of a break and my talks got a positive reception and we got the chance to talk to some interesting people in the fitness industry. “Jeff Galloway says he’s seen the barefoot fad come and go five times in his lifetime and that this one too will go,” I said to the audience, “we don’t agree on much but he’s right about one thing – it will disappear if we don’t stop getting distracted by the barefoot debate and start discussing skill and begin to teach the right practices.” The message was simple: “Do you want to spend most of your time crashing your car and going to the mechanic (e.g. physio) or do you want to go and see a driving instructor and stop crashing the car?”

I was nowhere near my mental and physical best on the Saturday so was greatly relieved to be given such positive feedback and hope to repay it when our team hopefully tells an expanded version of “out story” at the Dublin marathon Expo later this year.

Compared to last year’s Dublin Marathon Expo, there is a lot more knowledge and interest out there about the concept of running requiring technical training and the whole philosophy of natural running. We have a lot of work ahead of us and I cannot wait to get started as there is much to achieve – huge foundations need to be put in place brick by brick. With that in mind I promised myself to relax as much as possible on the Sunday. None of our plans and visions will come to fruition if I forget to rest and “sharpen the saw”. As Stephen Covey, author of the “7 habits of highly effective people” puts it “you need to look after your production capability, not just your productivity.”

Glendalough – the fulcrum of trails

After the drive home to Glendalough I essentially went into a coma and then woke up feeling human again. Glorious sunshine over Glendalough and a perfect day for an adventure. We knew it had to be open mountain and with Oliver Castle for company, we began intending to do the Six Summits and a Spink route but changed it to a longer route featuring a complete circumnavigation of Camaderry starting and finishing at our house which is nicely situated just at the very tip of the mountain. 27.5km with 916m ascent made for nice going with only the mid-section from Corrib to Turlough Hill being slightly boggy. Aoife and I decided the weekend required another run, so we took the back door to Camaderry on the second day and the fast descent back to the house. A short 9.8km run with 549m ascent. As I descended Camaderry, feeling every bit like a range rover, several ideas for training sessions on the mountain popped into my head. Nothing inspires like Mother Nature.

So we’re back to reality but it’s not so bad and while are eyes are firmly fixed on the future and what we need to do, we try not to forget to enjoy every day as well. On a sunny day in the Wicklow mountains it is not difficult. With “normal life” resumed, and some order, training seems to be becoming more consistent and I may be able to free up enough time to prepare for an event over the summer or Autumn. All I need to do now is pick one!

DIARY: Canadian trail running

I’m going to admit something – I think I only ever enjoy running on a road when I’m running fast. When I’m on a road, it can be perfectly relaxing but by and large, it’s a bit dull, so what got me hooked on road races and training on roads (I was introduced to mountains before road racing) was the feeling of speed. Going out every week and seeing the paces drop and getting the feeling of “this is going somewhere.”

Canadian trails

The Canadian trails on the other hand, are a different story (just as the wonderful trails around Glendalough where I live), on those trails I don’t care if I’m going slow. It’s still interesting. It’s most interesting if the trail is going somewhere and although we were wet and miserable I was glad to complete the long run from Lynn Valley to Deep Cover, the latter part of both the Baden-Powell trail that goes the entire length of North Vancouver as well as the “Knee Wrecker” Ultra run on almost the same course.

Lynn Valley to Deep Cove trail (1322m ascent, 21.3km)

The trail was not just wet and extremely undulating, it has an obscene disregard for evenness – everywhere branches, roots, rocks and other obstacles arranged in evermore chaotic patterns for our poor brains to compute. They just about managed at slow speed – they’d take some serious mind-power at high speeds. The first kilometre was essentially a walk and the next two not much better with 228m kilometres ascent crammed into the first kilometre alone. It should be noted this is not the worst ascent on the ultra (that is over the Cypress Hill massiff earlier).

Grouse Mountain power hike (741m ascent, 2.81km)

An even obscener 357m ascent in the first 1000m!

Infinite spaces

On the other, clearer, days the terrain and trails were just mind-boggling. The size of British Columbia and its wilderness blows the mind and then you realise that north of it lies the enormous Yukon Territory and beyond that lies Alaska and the Arctic Archipelago. Those vast forests and vast empty spaces has a magical pull, they’re the last reminder of the plane we used to inhabit. In last week’s Game of Thrones, “The Hound” tells Beric Dondarrian “you have seen better days,” and he answers “yes, and I shall not see them again.” Our planet could say the same so the temperate Rainforest of BC is an experience I really enjoyed. The tropics are not for me, I’m too Northern, it’s not in the blood, but the vast lush forests we ran through and the huge cold mountains. You cannot get enough of that.

Our one regret was that while the Whistler trip was enjoyable and the hotel superb, most higher trails were too covered in snow to contemplate getting to them. The altitude was simply too high to allow safe access. This barred our way to several of sapphire lakes and majestic mountain passes that it would have been a real treat to traverse – running or hiking or both. It’s unfinished business that I will return some day to complete. There are some superb trail runs where you can spend most of the run over a 1000m.

Our black bear (just at the rim of the trees!)

We did spot a black bear (from quite a safe distance) so that was mission accomplished on that front!

Forward thinking Canada

Another thing you notice is “how old” our world here in Europe really is. I’ve noticed this on my travels to Reno, Boulder and even Fargo. The super markets have caught on to the wider demand for organic produce and rich variety of fresh product to a much greater degree. Walking into the “Whole Foodstore” makes an Irish supermarket seem like a very poor cousin indeed in terms of choice and selection.

Similarly, the Canadians have opened their mind to natural running to a much greater degree and the average layman and expert seems to have a greater knowledge of the topic. While they are not there yet, the shops seem at least 5 years ahead of their European and Irish counter-parts. The Mountain Co-Op offers Natural Running classes to all it’s customers, for instance. There’s no conservatism there – every new thing is greeted with adventurism and openness. Natural values are respect and you can feel the love of the outdoors.

Hopefully we’ll be able to take a clinic there some day, Vancouver is a perfect location with all the natural facilities required. For now, I’ll just dream of those Canadian trails and count my lucky chickens that the Wicklow trails are “not too shabby”.

DIARY: Lessons from Canada

Canada proved to be a great country to visit, especially for Aoife and I as it had two of the things we like most: good trails and good food! Before this turns into a “Lonely Planet” blog, however, let me get the non-running matters out of the system: Canada had extremely friendly people, some of the best micro-brewery beers I’ve tried (Maple Cream Ale anyone or Sorghum Gluten Free beer?) and natural spectacles so numerous it beggars belief. There is so much within 20 minutes of Vancouver that most countries would be hard pressed to match it. Yet this area is a tiny dot in an wilderness whose size it is hard for my modern min to comprehend.  Only downsides were the over-priced and not particularly enjoyable local wines we tried, an uninspiring and somewhat dirty downtown area and over-attentive table service!

Running lessons

On to the main topic: during one of our first outings we learned that when Canadian guidebooks (this can be seen on their mountain bike trails as well – we only saw grades of More Difficult, Most Difficult and Extreme!)* was that they do not overstate the difficulty of their trails. Unsurprising then that on one of these trails, our long run in the Thursday heat in Squamish, I got dehydrated, lost concentration and struck my heel first against a hard rock, then a hard root and then another hard rock. At the third blow I had some immediate swelling so Aoife and I walked the last kilometre back to the car to ensure I could be back in action the following day.

* Sidenote:Seeing some of the trails and imagining the skill required to get over them on a bike gives me an increased respect for the mountain bikers. I never enjoyed the sport and would not be in any hurry to try it again myself, but they have my respect nonetheless.

A few weeks ago I had similarly banged my right forefoot and as a result had a tender third metatarsal on the right foot. While it did not stop me at any time it meant a slight wince whenever my foot got prodded by a pointy rocks straight on the sore sport.We were doing significant downhill and uphill on very technical terrain, almost daily, so every now and again I’d get a slight stiffness in my left ankle. But wait a minute? Wasn’t I supposed to be injury free? Or at least injury proof? Well, yes, and I have never intended to convey that I am bullet proof thanks to Tony Riddle’s intervention – if I get cut I still bleed. If you hit me, I still bruise. So what’s the difference?

Injury free running – before and after

What Canada really made me reflect on with this series of little “sore spots” was that I had experienced every single one of those “symptoms” (or effects as I prefer) earlier in my running career and in all cases they led to severe frustration and lengthy lay-offs of six weeks and often much longer. I was powerless and clueless to do anything about them nor to understand why I picked them up.

Aoife said to me after a bruise she got earlier this year: “It’s still so frustrating to get a pain like that but I know at least that it’s gone in 1-2 days, or 1-2 weeks when it’s bad, instead of not knowing when it’ll be gone.” She knew better than anyone having suffered for over a year with a “mystery” nerve injury that most, including the Sports Surgery Clinic at Santry, where helpless to diagnose or fix.*

* Tony Riddle fixed it. Not by waving a magic wand. Aoife had to change her ways and follow his instructions. But away it went. Truth was – we never found out “what it was” (pinched nerve or otherwise) – we didn’t need to know. Retraining the running style that hurt her and shoes that contributed to this was enough.

On the Canadian trails, the pain still hurt as I banged my foot and it was still slightly frustrating as it naturally put some tension into my system and took a bit of enjoyment out of some of the runs we did (when you have to watch yourself like a hawk, everything get’s less leisurely) but apart from that there is a world of difference from the past. Firstly – I know what to do to improve my healing process and I know the cause. Blunt trauma may seem obvious but I had noticed that my left foot still had a tendency to land with a slight heel strike. Had my heel landed more gently and my form been better, and my ability to maintain it, the blow would not have happened.* Rather than being unable to run for weeks and getting a Latin-language diagnosis, as I have been in the past, and told to rest, ice and take anti-inflammatories, I simply did two things: 1. focused more on form and 2. re-adjusted my volume to what I could keep concentration on. We threw in some easier days (hiking and light running) as well, as anyone would in their training programme, to allow the initial swelling to settle a little bit (we also went to an amazing outdoor SPA – Scandinavian style, but that was for the mind and pleasure not rehabilitation!).

* Some will blame my use of shoes with no protection. I prefer to take responsibility for my own failures and accept them for what Tony has taught me they are, my own lack of skill, rather than blaming it on the situation or artificial aids. Truth is, if I had worn a shoe with any kind of real sole, I expect I would have two badly sprained feet from the Vancouver trails!

Benefits of a banged heel

The day after a long flight, I take a shorter session as a rule because the system can be slightly sluggish and the “not quite right” so I only went out for an easy 30 minutes (1km bare foot incorporated) and this run confirmed something I had noticed on our last trail runs in Vancouver: my running form has improved rather than regressed because my heel is tender. Why? Because with the VivoBarefoot shoes I am getting instant feedback if I put any excessive force through the heel (e.g. too much “heel strike” and not enough of a “heel kiss”).

Right enough I had no discomfort at all and could clearly feel a difference and a better landing on the left foot. So once you are equipped correctly: technically and with the right technology shoes, then these bruises are not injuries – they are just learning experiences that heal quickly and provide no real impediment to running.  Had I broken my heel bone the scenario would, of course, be less rosy but it is very difficult to that running minimalist because you are very aware of what you run on! 

The difference then

What I tend to do is avoid extremely rocky trail if I have bruised a bone (since it only takes one mistake and it’s easy to tense up if you have that thought in your head) – I choose a hard flat even surface instead (tarmac) because then I can focus all my concentration on keeping good enough form that I do not put undue pressure on the bruised area.

So that’s what Canada has reminded me is the difference between an injury free runner and a non injury free runner: the injury free runner can still bruise but in my case it has allowed me to keep running while making the corrections to take into account such bruises.*

*Common-sense still applies, of course, if someone takes a  baseball bat to my feet tomorrow and break my ankles, I will not run on them the next day no matter how good I think my technique is (but I would as soon as the integrity of the bones would again allow it, which would be much sooner than for a heel striking athlete).

With that I am looking forward to welcoming back the coach who made it possible for me, Tony Riddle, this weekend for another of the “Run injury free” courses. There' are no magic bullets being handed out over the weekend – but the skill can be learned with the right attitude and right approach and with some new hill running material on the agenda I am looking forward to this one in particular. Roll on.

DIARY: Vancouver honeymoon

While Aoife is catching up on some jet-lag induced sleep, I’ll put pen to a few initial observations about Vancouver, more specifically North Vancouver, which is the site of our honeymoon.

Yours truly at Deep Cove

The readers who missed it have guessed from the introduction that I am now a “married man”. Whether it will lead to more responsible posting, time will tell (probably not!). I think the key point of my speech at the wedding was that marriage is not the end of new beginnings or the cessation of searching for new exciting shores. It just means you have someone along for the journey and, naturally, you have to ask their permission sometimes if they like the destination!

We had struggled to find a suitable spot for our honeymoon so it was a great surprise when an old friend, in the shape of Barry Tennyson, offered us to loan his apartment on the fringe of the Seymour mountain area in North Vancouver. Endless lush rain forest basically court the eye as you look out from here and the trails seem unending. In this case neither Aoife nor I needed much time to agree it was an ideal place to go for us.

Day 1 - morning run

After landing we were not up to much and relaxed before going straight to bed. We had agreed to rendezvous with Barry’s “Edgemont group”, a bunch of runner meeting 2-3 times per week at 5:45 for a one hour morning run followed by thirty minutes of gorgeous coffee in the Delaney’s coffee-store.

Aoife heading into the Old Buck trail in the grim morning rain!

With the time difference we were quite awake and it was great to meet a group of runners and be taken on an easy trot through the quiet morning streets. We spend most of the evening reading through Barry’s book “Vancouver Trail Running” to put together a bit of a plan. In addition, Barry had already preorganised maps and “running dates” for us.

Day 2 – first trail run

I tried to combine Barry’s notes with parts of two routes known as “Iron Lung” (described as “a proud tour of duty” course and the Bridle Circuit (“well-established technical trails”).

We decided to use the closest trail-head (“Old Buck Trail”) to gain access to the trail network and then ran upwards for 2 miles raising from 150m to 500m. What’s interesting about the Seymour mountain range is that most of the peaks are over 1500m, dwarfing Carrauntoohil, yet almost entirely covered in lush rain-forest. The peaks are still snow covered but the trail network primarily snakes through the lower slopes.

The Old Buck trail itself was extremely runnable but once we veered off it to take a different route down we got a taste for why there is a lot of hyperbole about the technicality of the Vancouver trails – the beating rain meant many paths where like streamlets and most were covered with enough rocks to make St. Kevin’s Way seem like a rubber mat. Gnarly roots are ever-present and you can run out of space real quick if you don’t stay on the ball. We ended up doing more of a run/hike through the challenging trails, enjoying every minute and staying out for a good 1 hour 50 minute run.

The plan ahead

Tomorrow we hope to meet Barry’s group for a morning trail run from Cleveland Dam around the Capilano canyon trails. In the afternoon, another running friend of Barry’s (yes, he’s a man of many friends, and understandably so!) will take us up the infamous “Grouse Grind” – an 853m climb over a mere 2.9km (a 29% ascent grade, well into the “terrible” section of the scale. The Grind is often called “Nature’s Stairmaster” locally. Barry took legendary Robbie Bryson here when he was in Vancouver to compete in the Fireman “Olympics”. You can get a card to time yourself against everyone else (there’s a screen at the top to show you the stats). Robbie duly set the second-fastest time ever recorded at the time.

Grouse Grind

For a long time a certain Jonathan Wyatt (whom regular readers will know as the one of the dominant, if not THE dominant, elite mountain runner of the recent era) held the record but local cyclist Sebastian Sales shattered it with his time of 23:48.

The summit is at 1127m and we hope to dine in the restaurant at the top afterwards before taking the gondola down (downhill running on the Grind is prohibited). The coolest feature is that you can send a text food order and expected arrival time at the top and have it ready courtesy of a “Grind Express Service”!

We don’t want to settle all our other plans yet, but hope to do the Stanley Park Seawall 10km loop (and perhaps the False Creek extension which would bring it up to 22km) as well as join another “tour-guided run” into the Lynn Valley area. To our chagrin our planned “Survival of the Fittest” run in Squamish was postponed so we are now considering doing the 13km or 18km course on our own instead on our way to Whistler on Sunday. In Whistler we expect to snowshoe and do cross-country skiing on Monday and Tuesday to take it a bit easier before seeing what other runs we may feel like fitting in next week.

Not all work

Now before anyone thinks we’re all work and no play, let me assure readers that we have sampled the best micro-brewed beers in the famous “Steamworx” pub (where I also bought what is allegedly the best “Choco-Stout” around), indulged in premium Italian ice-cream in the scenic Deep Cove (the dark chocolate sorbet is a keeper!) and gorged ourselves on the ever-present yam or sweet potato fries you can get as a “top-up” on most anything (they come heavily recommended, the poor old potato barely get’s a look-in!). The supermarkets also deserve a mention – they are 5-10 years ahead of poor old Europe in terms of putting together creative natural foods. This morning we managed to buy a cultured coconut milk (essentially yoghurt created by fermenting coconut milk) and there’s an almost endless supply of nut mixtures and other options that make it easy to indulge in high-nutrition foods.

As I write this I’m sipping away on a local speciality – Maple Black Tea – like many things it sounds so wrong yet is so right!

DIARY: Easter-tide

I’m officially on “Easter holiday” from now until tomorrow after my breakfast. I’ve been a whirlwind of activity these last weeks after coming back from Kerry. Since getting my Vitamin D and selenium supplements and getting more time for training in, I’ve been re-energised and this allowed me to keep strong on four fronts:

• Wedding planning and preparation!
• Closing down all my work tasks and projects in the office before being gone for most of April
• Getting all my “clients in a row” and shifting the most important work for ChampionsEverywhere as well as keeping some momentum on side-projects
• Getting in training and running classes

Roadwork and Saturday client

I had  client in down here at Glendalough for 3 hours and after that did a good 12km of road-work on the Glenmacnass Road. I evaded falling into one of my old traps – I noticed that putting in a 10 miler would give me a nice round number of 50 miles for the week. Yet as I got started I could feel body and mind were not up for it after three hours of “mental gymnastics” and a tougher week than I’ve had in a while, so I opted to stay conservative with 12km. Coming into Sunday I changed my long run to a recovery run as I can get my long run in on Easter Monday. I woke up grumpy and had gotten grumpier as Saturday progressed.

I knew that it was a combination of calorie deficit and not having had time to take a step back in the previous 12 days. Friday turned out pretty frantic and I barely got time to eat. To add to it, all my meals those days happened to be a bit on the smaller side and lacking enough fat, so trying to pig out today although we don’t really have enough in the house to do it, so tomorrow I may go somewhere to indulge in a three course meal!

K2 and hydrochlorid acid

Otherwise, I’ve begun taking hydrochloric acid to help the long-term recovery from the antibiotics treatments I got last year and will also try to add in Vitamin K2. It’s a largely forgotten vitamin with huge importance for our health (it moves calcium from your arteries into where it is needed – muscles, organs and bones). Our ancestors had no need to worry about it because you get a lot from organ meats (which we don’t eat much). Other good sources are hard cheeses, fermented foods and eggs. I noticed that while I do eat eggs a few times per week, I have removed a very large proportion of dairy. This is all well and good for a hunter-gatherer getting plenty of organ meat, but I may have triggered an inadvertent Vitamin K2 deficiency. To test this theory, I’ll get a supplement for a period of time and see if I notice any difference and up my intake of eggs again.

The future

The wedding and honeymoon will be a break from “normal life” that I hope to grasp with both arms. There is a lot to do when I return on all fronts in my life – important things that will require focus and momentum and hard work, and that also includes maintaining my “keystone” habit of a regular running routine.

I made up a 7-year plan taking me to my fortieth year a few weeks ago and am very excited about it when I view it on paper. You cannot plan the specifics over such a long time but you can put in the general direction and high level milestones. It looks achievable even while balancing all the different balls of my life. The next priority will be to hone in on the balls that are most important and see it’s time to drop one or two on the floor and keep juggling only those that matter the most and are the most important in the grander scheme of things.

Oh yeah, and here’s me “fooling around with a rock” video, one of the many small ideas for putting more natural elements into my exercise regimen that I picked up from Tony Riddle and Ben Medder.